As in, not known to you IRL.
I’ve occasionally brought it up before, but a while back in my reddit days I was in a thread where a “professional deprogrammer” had popped in and was talking about how to “deprogram” conservatives and get them to shift left in their views. It centered around restoring their sense of community and belonging with more balanced viewpoint folks IRL and away from their online echo chambers.
I asked them if they had any way to convert someone you encounter wholly online and they said that it was basically impossible, IRL you have a decent chance, but not online.
I’ve been thinking about that quite a bit, so now I’m curious if anybody here has actually gotten an online conservative to come to the dark side light side?
I drifted slowly from right-libertarian to a more leftish position: pro-union, pro-social-programs, skeptical of the compatibility of unregulated capitalism with individual freedom. Still no fan of tankies.
This wasn’t from anyone sitting down and trying to convince me, though. Part of it was discovering how close right-libertarianism had always been to white-supremacism: some old Ron Paul newsletters were unpleasantly enlightening. Part was seeing people who called themselves “libertarians” line up with the far right to support state violence, especially against black and brown people. And heck, part was from getting richer and seeing how that worked.
I have a lot of sympathy for the frustrations that get young men into right-wing positions and occasionally I try to puncture some of the nonsense they’re being fed.
I’m in the middle of pulling a chat friend out of his programming. His only real problem was being raised in Texas by a Good Ol Boy single father, and once he got out from under his dad’s wing, he started to realize that what he was taught simply isn’t lining up with reality.
He started out as an incel, but now he’s in therapy and has a girlfriend.
I think of it less as ‘converting’ and more just holding his hand while he figures out that his dad’s advice was complete horseshit. It takes forever, and not everybody has the spoons to pull it off, but I do, so I will.
I’m conservative, but I’ve never seen it happen in either direction. Internet arguments are more about the audience than the tankie you’re arguing against.
To be fair, it’s kinda unusual to all of a sudden be convinced that it’s ok to be racist, like exploitation, and be against helping the unfortunate.
I know right? Especially when the other guy is convinced he’s not being racist and he’s helping the unfortunate, like most lefties.
I disagree with you.
However I would like the full version of that argument. Please.
I don’t this will lead anywhere productive, but alright, first let’s get our terms straight. Racism is prejudice based on race or discrimination based on that prejudice. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
Right now, there’s this out-group bias. I’m not saying it’s all lefties, but some, even in the government, which makes it systemic. For example, the UK Grooming Scandal, or how in America, illegal immigrants in NYC get housing for free when Americans don’t. (I would very much prefer it the other way around, Americans got housed for free, (Or no one at all, because the government is always corrupt, and they’ll just use it an excuse to funnel taxpayer money to landlords)). Hell, there’s lefties who think we shouldn’t deport illegal immigrants! Even after they commit a crime other than illegally immigrating! For more examples, take a gander at the scholarships available, how many are minority specific? Plenty. How many are majority specific? None. How about homeless shelters? How many are women specific? Plenty (Which is a good thing). How many are male specific? Few. (Which is a bad thing) Hell, the entire saga of Earl Silverman and the first domestic violence shelter for men in Canada is heartbreaking.
I can go on, but it gets tiresome quickly. All of it is pretty racist.
For the second bit, the whole “not helping” bit.
What do you think happens when you send aid to 3rd world countries? Especially on going aid? When you send shirts, those shirts devastate the local textile industry. When you send food, it hurts the farms. Yeah, sure, you could subsidize those local industries, but that quickly spirals out of control. Which factories get funds? How much are the local warlords getting out of it? That sort of thing. If you aren’t fully funding everything for an indefinite period of time, then you’re hurting them.
That’s not to say don’t help in an earthquake or other natural disaster, but it’s gotta be a light touch. Help them back on their feet and then let them go on their way.
We are still in disagreement because you’re splitting hairs to try claiming you’re a good person, and I’m not.
As I said before. We are in disagreement. However I appreciate that you showed at least some of your work.
What hairs? I don’t think I’m splitting any hairs, or getting anywhere close.
Confronting them with the flaws in their thinking only makes them double down:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/darwins-subterranean-world/202401/why-do-people-double-down
If they won’t change their mind, is doubling down any different than continuing to believe what they already believe?
They actively reject the evidence and believe what they want to an even greater degree.
Can’t tell if you’re talking about religion or conservatives.
Just kidding, it’s the same mental weakness being exploited in both groups.
Thanks for chiming in, Genocide Jordan.
I’ve watched conservative theists unravel and admit things about themselves openly as they crash out under questioning they started by making a thread on debate forums, but they always relapsed by the next day.
